two hatters

Union and union related discussion.
Pumpone
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Postby Pumpone » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:54 pm

[QUOTE=dentedhead;193367]How am I taking food off of someones table? The company has no drivers and stuff that needs hauled.If there is nobody else to drive it how am I taking food away from someone? Its not a regular FT position,how does it differ from him using a driver service(none in our area) it doesn't other than the owner knows me and trusts me with his equipment and dealing with his clients.

*Is this a regular thing?f you didn't haul his stuff would he be forced to find a part time employee who could use the money, as opposed to you who does it for fun money.

You are taking the debate to the enth degree.

*Yes I am to get my point across.

Guys that do a bit of moonlighting are not taking away from anyone.They are not working on union job sites and they are not running full time businesses,at least the guys I know.

* This then can be said about the fulltimer who commutes to work lives in a small town and volunteers on his home town dept that runs 60 calls a year. Should they be charged?

You just admitted that you would use a brother to do a job regardless of how often they come up you aretaking food offf someones table by your estimation.Why not call the local small business that does whatever you need done? You seem to feel very strongly about it so why encourage it...oh wait its to your advantage to use the guy from your hall so that doesn't count.

*Every job I have had I have been part of a work party from roofing to drywalling to help switch transmissions. This is a normal part of life I did not charge by the hour just by the case and pound of steak. As far as I am concerned this was more buddies helping buddies which is all I ever expect when I help someone and vice versa. This was more helping with a DIY job than moonlighting.

*There is a big difference between helping a a brother or a sister out every twenty years by saving them some money by doing there roof. As opposed to finishing my rotation then going home hooking up the trailer doing a couple of roofs taking work away from full time roofers. The same roofers who pay tax which eventually makes it into my pocket, they have a right to make an earning too, send their kids to disneyland give them the latest electronic gizmo. Is it right that I take there tax money and steal jobs away from them?

I have no problems debating the point with you, you seem reasonable enough about it.I am a fairly black and white guy but am very much aware of the various shades of grey.

* Agreed. There is a little bit of black on the right and a little bit of white on the left and a motherload of grey in the middle.
Last edited by Pumpone on Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lifes not fair, an occasional rant is good for you but dont think it is everyone's elses fault all the time.

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dentedhead
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Postby dentedhead » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 am

No not regular,I also live in area with limited resources so plenty of business owners have guys they can call if needed for something...not all FFs.

Your point is being made without hyperbole

I have no problem with the guy who lives in a small community that has no chance of ever becoming FT and does not border a career serviced area.Exactly what the constitution was amended to allow.Its the guy who works in the GTA and volunteers in a dept that is composite,or in an area where the tax base and demand call for a FT dept.

A work party is part of what we do for each other.My point was that there are plenty of guys who will call Jimmy over on B shift to convert his fuse box to circuit breakers and pay next to nothing rather than call ABC electrical and mechanical service.I know that we do favours for each other but there are always those that take advantage of it.Also as Oldboot mentioned do you feel the same about union tradesman doing side jobs?

The grey area will be the roadblock in any debate,by black and white I mean I will look at all three sides...yours,mine and the real point....prior to making my conclusion with most time spent in that motherlode of grey confused!
Last edited by dentedhead on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thousand a week for hide and seek on call when Im paid to be.

infernobuster
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Postby infernobuster » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:15 am

[quote=""dentedhead""]WOW maybe you should fact check a bit harder, here let me spell it out for you I have worked as FF and a medic for a combined 25 plus years.I don't now or have I ever worked PT while I was employed as a paramedic full-time.Easy enough for your obtuse little brain to grasp? That was from a thread that one of your volly pals was bragging about all the experience he had and couldn't get hired.I replied sarcastically lowest form of humour i know but gets a point across sometimes.

I do know plenty of guys on BFD, it was used to illustrate how small the fire world is but being a twohatting scab bastard you probably thought it was a threat.Its funny you think a certain guy with a big FF sticker in his window is a dick but he is one of your own kind.The fellas can laugh all they want I am merely standing up for the same constitution they swore an oath to and some choose to ignore.

Clear enuff for you there scabby!My stones are all safely stowed in my glass cabinet.I can hardly wait for your response!!

Dentedhead[/quote]

The funny thing about your entire post is im NOT a two hatter you door knob.

LOL. Stand down already or just retire.
All men are created equal, a few become fire fighters.

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PFD023
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Postby PFD023 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:31 am

[quote=""infernobuster""]...........PS. Your comments have been printed out, are currently in discussion for each shift to view now. " stand down" i think i still hear the guys laughing ..[/quote]

definately not cool......brother(??)

infernobuster
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Postby infernobuster » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:39 am

[quote=""PFD023""]definately not cool......brother(??)[/quote]

Please go and read the entire thread, esp the parts where he basically threatened knowing guys in the union and officers and it is a small world afterall.

Reading between the lines he basically saying " shut up or ill go make trouble for you"
I wont push this topic any further ..

I wont take a threat in person, let over the internet from some keyboard commando
All men are created equal, a few become fire fighters.

someday
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Postby someday » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:24 am

and i got ripped for attacking people and im just a new kid on here . u guys seem like old time veterens

my uncle was right about reading some topics that turn into shit shows

no questions asked here just my obsirvations

Pumpone
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Postby Pumpone » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:30 am

No not regular,I also live in area with limited resources so plenty of business owners have guys they can call if needed for something...not all FFs.

*Then if it is more of a helping hand or favour for a buddy type of situation then so be it. The other side of that coin is will the guy you help out on a irregular basis lose out on business and then lose money. If you help him help give him a good name then maybe one day he will gain more business thereby helping him to take on one more fulltime employee.

Your point is being made without hyperbole


*Thanks

I have no problem with the guy who lives in a small community that has no chance of ever becoming FT and does not border a career serviced area.Exactly what the constitution was amended to allow.Its the guy who works in the GTA and volunteers in a dept that is composite,or in an area where the tax base and demand call for a FT dept.

* Agreed on 99%, the 1% I dont agree with is the bordering on a fulltime dept. My view is that if it borders on a fulltime dept then thay have more chance of being absorbed into the city then they have of going fulltime. Again my view dont expect everyone to agree with it. And as long as he doesn't work on the bordering dept.




A work party is part of what we do for each other.My point was that there are plenty of guys who will call Jimmy over on B shift to convert his fuse box to circuit breakers and pay next to nothing rather than call ABC electrical and mechanical service.I know that we do favours for each other but there are always those that take advantage of it.Also as Oldboot mentioned do you feel the same about union tradesman doing side jobs?

*How many times does someone need to change there fusebox to a circuit breaker once maybe twice in a lifetime. Anyone in any proffesion wants to save a buck human nature, doing the occasional favour for anyone not a problem starting a business on the side and charging below going rate a problem. We all have those guys and we all know who they are, this would be the same guy that shows up when two thirds of the roof has been done but stays to drink all the beer.

**Grab a beer this is a long one.

*I was raised a lot like a lot of people. I was raised in a family business, times where tough and things where sacrificed.It was made clear to me that there was a clear connection between the cuts and caluses on my fathers and brothers hands and the food in my belly.
When I joined them they where sure to make sure I put in a full days work, yes there is some horseplay but the work gets done and gets done right. When I put on the uniform to go to work I go to work, somedays are busy some are slow. the slow days things stilll need to be done, training needs to be accomplished. I have my breaks then find something to do, maps to study, tools to clean and sharpen. Watching TV for the majority of the shift doesnt sit well with me. you can be busy if you want to be. Although on some of the slower days I dont really feel that I accomplish much, because I have nothing to show for it.
where is this leading well here, Do I agree with any union tradesman doing sidejobs no. I would like to know why a tradesman is doing side jobs. Again comingfrom where I came from I go to work put in a full days days work knowing that I can go home and rest. when I worked at home when I finished work, I wanted to go home and rest not go out and work at a second job. It wasnt union and the pay wasn't that great but enough to live comfortably.

**If I am coming off as pretentious poor little me sob story I dont mean too. I just thought maybe a little more info about me would help clear up and explain my point of view.

*How many medicals, small kitchen fire,Co calls or any call which lets you into the house without disturbing there day to day life. How many times have you been into a house where it is plain money is not in plentiful supply. The house is decent the car is older but patched up the house is neat and tidy and the kids are well looked after. But there are few toys and the only chance the kids will ever have of seeing disneyworld is on a commercial on TV. You leave the house knowing that you are making the average wage of ontario FF which is more than the two parents put together. Then you go home and and start days off working at a second job which could possible impact the earnings of this family. Is that right?




The grey area will be the roadblock in any debate,by black and white I mean I will look at all three sides...yours,mine and the real point....prior to making my conclusion with most time spent in that motherlode of grey confused!


*I dont expect anyone to agree with me all the time as I dont agree with everyone all the time. I just expect to have a decent grown up discussion on any subject. Anyway I wouldn't expect people to agree with all the time like I said before, that would mean there would be more than one of me in the room and that the world doesn't need ;)
Last edited by Pumpone on Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lifes not fair, an occasional rant is good for you but dont think it is everyone's elses fault all the time.

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dentedhead
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Postby dentedhead » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:44 am

[quote=""infernobuster""]Please go and read the entire thread, esp the parts where he basically threatened knowing guys in the union and officers and it is a small world afterall.

Reading between the lines he basically saying " shut up or ill go make trouble for you"
I wont push this topic any further ..

I wont take a threat in person, let over the internet from some keyboard commando[/quote]

I would be more than happy to make the same comment in person,after all I am in Brampton a fair bit.Dont read between the lines or too far into that...NOT A THREAT OR CHALLENGE....K

Again you are wrong,I was only illustrating the point that word travels fast in the fire service,I abhor two hatting.Would I lay a charge? Not unless its necessary and please be advised sonny Jim I don't threaten or ask I just go ahead and do.If you felt concerned about it at all you had to do was PM and I would have cleared it up.Since you wanted to go the flame/"keyboard commando" route thats okay too.The fact is that I do know many guys on Brampton from the floor up,matter of fact I had a beer with a DC the other day and guys at the seminar last week.Guess what? I dint even think about you once....I don't even know your name so how would I go about doing anything? Obviously it rattled you! Then you chose to turn it into this.I started this thread only to see how many actually do two hat.Not to go on a witch hunt.We know of three or four two hatters in our area and one potential.There is only one we will consider charging.Ex medic and volly who talks shit all the time about our dept.We are just waiting to see what happens when he is done his probation.

You should really stop reading between the lines,there is nothing there.I won't wait for the apology about me two hatting just do your own research next time.

I used to think you were a decent guy guess I was wrong.So g'head print all my posts off and show them to the your shift, your chief or the OFM if you want. be I will stand by my opinions and concede when I am wrong without starting something asinine,that and the fact I really don't give a monkeys about you your family or anything else about you.Please by all means two hat you know the possible ramifications and you know there is no help in the court system, precedent has already been been set in provincial court and the labour board!

Please do have a nice weekend and thanks for coming out.

Dentedhead
Thousand a week for hide and seek on call when Im paid to be.

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PFD023
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Postby PFD023 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:50 am

[quote=""dentedhead""]Okay boys and girls its that time of year again.It was the georgina hiring that made me decide to see what the deal is.I am not out too troll to lay charges I am just interested to see what the numbers are like.Generally I am not bothered by guys/gals two hatting in a community that has no chance of and will never go FT or composite or have another career dept commissioned in your area.

I don't want to see any fights start and unless you are truly a two hatter please don't stir the pot.If you want just say yes or no if you want to add distance from FT gig to where you live etc its all good....strange for me to say that but I don't want anyone to think it is a witch hunt it is not.I am doing this purely out of curiosity....Thanks

Dentedhead[/quote]

ORIGINAL QUESTION......bump....bump....bump.

Pumpone
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Postby Pumpone » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 am

[quote=""PFD023""]ORIGINAL QUESTION......bump....bump....bump.[/quote]

How about we leave this dead horse for the vultures. It's one subject in which I dont think anyone in the fire service can discuss without throwing tonka toys at each others head.
Lifes not fair, an occasional rant is good for you but dont think it is everyone's elses fault all the time.


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