People paniking at incidents...

RugbyCanada
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Postby RugbyCanada » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:01 am

"irsqyu" wrote:Ah yes I guess thats true, not too many responses to the 400, but plenty to the Quick & Easy Way as well as the 403 and the 407

For Itsnotahobby, it is pretty well standard for the province, I have filled out many invoices. We all fill out the MTO invoices on line. It basically allows for a minimum $350 charge for responding as long as you do SOMETHING, IE block a lane for scene safety while you investigate for hazards or injuries. If you get waved off you collect nothing. If there is an actual working incident then it is $350 per truck per hour.
A few years ago we got the minimum fee as soon as a wheel touched the on ramp, not so any more.


Ummmm.....are you guys serious? GTA FD's charges {bills} people for emergency MVA calls, if the call is not an emergency, even if a passerby calls in the "emergency"? Or do you mean, that if the FD responds, THEN the FD can bill the province for the call? I honestly have no idea, and if anybody can clarify this for me, I would appreciate it.
Base on the above posts, I read that the "person" involved in a call, would be billed by the municipality for a "fake" or "the poor guy with the overheated rad on the 400 will get a $350 bill from the Ministry of Transportation if we respond!" [end quote]

Jeebus Christo---is this really what Municipality's are doing to raise funds??
What if a highschool kid pulls an alarm to get out of an exam? Does the school get a fine? What if my neighbour see's smoke from bar-b-que, and calls in a fire--am I responsible?

I don't get it. Did I read the posts wrong, or are you guys serious about hi-way calls?

Please advise,

Cheers, RC
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irsqyu
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Postby irsqyu » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:23 am

"RugbyCanada" wrote:Ummmm.....are you guys serious? GTA FD's charges {bills} people for emergency MVA calls, if the call is not an emergency, even if a passerby calls in the "emergency"? Or do you mean, that if the FD responds, THEN the FD can bill the province for the call? I honestly have no idea, and if anybody can clarify this for me, I would appreciate it.
Base on the above posts, I read that the "person" involved in a call, would be billed by the municipality for a "fake" or "the poor guy with the overheated rad on the 400 will get a $350 bill from the Ministry of Transportation if we respond!" [end quote]

Jeebus Christo---is this really what Municipality's are doing to raise funds??
What if a highschool kid pulls an alarm to get out of an exam? Does the school get a fine? What if my neighbour see's smoke from bar-b-que, and calls in a fire--am I responsible?

I don't get it. Did I read the posts wrong, or are you guys serious about hi-way calls?

Please advise,

Cheers, RC


Totally serious RC, the Province owns the land that the highways are on, they do not have a fire department of their own, they do not pay taxes for this land, therefore they pay a user fee to the local municipalities for each response. Normally if there is an accident, FD's invoice the province and they then try to recover their money from either the vehicle owner or their insurance. The 407 also gets invoiced as they are a private corporation

Unfortunately some people are getting charged for needless calls which have been called in by a passing cell phone user

This is a big source of revenue for many smaller volunteer departments, especially in Northern Ontario. When the rules were changed a few years ago saying they could not charge for just responding but doing nothing, they took a big hit. Figure all the calls on Highway 11 heading North as well as Highway 6 heading to the Bruce Peninsula, large income for the departments along the way.

As far as the High School or Commercial alarm, most will get invoiced after about 3 false alarms, so the school better get their delinquent students under control or it will cost them.

As far as charging for call to a residence, no charge.............ever

By the way RC, not just the GTA, this applys to any Provincially owned roadway, anywhere in Ontario. There will be an invoice from the fire department who's jurisdiction the highway is in.
Last edited by irsqyu on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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itsnotahobby
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Postby itsnotahobby » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:02 am

"irsqyu" wrote:Ah yes I guess thats true, not too many responses to the 400, but plenty to the Quick & Easy Way as well as the 403 and the 407

For Itsnotahobby, it is pretty well standard for the province, I have filled out many invoices. We all fill out the MTO invoices on line. It basically allows for a minimum $350 charge for responding as long as you do SOMETHING, IE block a lane for scene safety while you investigate for hazards or injuries. If you get waved off you collect nothing. If there is an actual working incident then it is $350 per truck per hour.
A few years ago we got the minimum fee as soon as a wheel touched the on ramp, not so any more.


Yup, we bill the province as well like you've stated. I was speaking about the stories out of either Richmond hill or Markham. They are billing per truck for calls in their city(MVAs) for non residents. One guy complained to the Toronto Star that he got billed for 3 trucks when he went off the road. He had no injuries and had called a tow truck already, a passerby called 911. When the crews arrived he said he didn't need them and they left. He still ended up getting a bill. And if I'm not mistaken this was actually a resident of the city, he was pissed 'cause he was being double billed as a tax payer already.
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irsqyu
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Postby irsqyu » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:36 pm

"itsnotahobby" wrote:Yup, we bill the province as well like you've stated. I was speaking about the stories out of either Richmond hill or Markham. They are billing per truck for calls in their city(MVAs) for non residents. One guy complained to the Toronto Star that he got billed for 3 trucks when he went off the road. He had no injuries and had called a tow truck already, a passerby called 911. When the crews arrived he said he didn't need them and they left. He still ended up getting a bill. And if I'm not mistaken this was actually a resident of the city, he was pissed 'cause he was being double billed as a tax payer already.

I believe we also charge within our city, but I don't believe we charge our residents, the amount also gets split between vehicles, for example:
If the charge were $300
1 resident, 1 non resident, non resident pays $150, resident pays $0
2 non residents, $150 each
2 residents $0
2 non residents, 1 resident, $100 per non resident,$0 resident
3 non resident, $100 each

and so on and so on.....................

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FFChick
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Postby FFChick » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:14 pm

I totally agree with Nagrom, I would much rather be woken up at 3am to help someone than find out about the crash later, and know that we could have possibly save that individual. I also do believe that people should be more educated in these types of emergencies, like what to do if you pass an MVA or a fire....you can never learn too much in helping others.

**Kate**
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LFD_FF17
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Postby LFD_FF17 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:47 pm

Its the nature of the business, you have to take the calls like that with the big calls too, and everything in-between. I would rather have someone calling in a nothing call then for everyone to assume they know what is best at a bigger call and figure they do not need to call 911.
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randyrescue
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dispatch protocol

Postby randyrescue » Fri May 09, 2008 1:29 pm

If the ambulance gets dispatched, so does fire. If for no other reason than to provide protection for the ambulance crew when they are standing on the hiway with their backs to the traffic.

Check for hazards and control traffic until the wrecker is able to clear the vehicle.

On the subject of billing... any numbered provincial hiway we bill Alberta Infrastructure hourly per truck. Similar to the rates discussed above. Alberta Infrastructure bills the insurance companies.

This is a major source of revenue for our department. Especially on those extended duration calls such as a semi rollover where the load is blocking the hiway, or fatalities where the traffic investigator has to finish up before we do our thing.

Arnika
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...

Postby Arnika » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:26 am

[quote=""randyrescue""]If the ambulance gets dispatched, so does fire. If for no other reason than to provide protection for the ambulance crew when they are standing on the hiway with their backs to the traffic.

Check for hazards and control traffic until the wrecker is able to clear the vehicle. [/quote]

Isn't that the job of police???

I also want to add that your posts have sustained my fear of calling 911. I've learned from them that if I'd call them, someone would be billed for that. I don't want that to happen. (I already know that calling ambulance in Manitoba, for an emergency, costs $300. Saving a life costs - this is ridiculous. Someone earns money on saving lives - this is nightmare.)

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Smokin_TDI
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Postby Smokin_TDI » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:45 pm

Yes, but normally we're on scene before they are. Also, we have medical and extrication equipment if needed and a big truck blocks traffic much better than a car.

We usually clear the scene once a designated blocker truck from the highway maintenance company shows up.

WolfmanHarris
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Postby WolfmanHarris » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:19 am

[quote=""Smokin_TDI""]Yes, but normally we're on scene before they are. [/quote]

That's going to be area dependent too. With co-locating of stations I find in my area we're usually arriving at the same time.

Also, we have medical and extrication equipment if needed and a big truck blocks traffic much better than a car.

We usually clear the scene once a designated blocker truck from the highway maintenance company shows up.
These days I would way rather have the big red truck covering traffic than the black and white car. I'm not sure if this is just an issue in my area but we've had a lot of run-in's lately with OPP insisting on leaving all lanes of traffic open while we work on the shoulder. Almost as if they've forgotten that the move-over law comes from the LODD of one of their own. Thankfully when FD shows up you guys don't give them the option. Not to mention Fire's actually a help on scene with patient care whereas PD for all I love the guys, aren't doing squat in that area. Helps that we've built a great working relationship on my platoon/district to the point that we miss our usual fire crews on the days when our schedules don't sync up.

And unless I'm south of steeles I don't think I've even had a blocker truck for a highway call in my area.


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